One of the leading scoffers at AW blog has published 17 pages of incoherent nonsense, claiming it is an extract from a 3000 word essay on the Pastoral Epistles of first and second Timothy and Titus. He referenced a long list of so-called scholars, who disagree or are unsure of the date the epistles were written, the author of them or whether the prose is that of the Apostle Paul, or some other unknown author. He no doubt cites these erudite scholars because he presumes or thinks that they are qualified to comment on the veracity of the scriptures. Then again, their names may have been on a university designated reading list, where the dumb sheep are led to be sacrificed on the altar of ignorance.
Well, AW's leading scoffer will be surprised to learn that all the epistles in the NT are pastoral epistles, as they were all written and sent to ministers of the various church congregations, then extant in Greece and Asia. And that the singling out of Timothy and Titus as pastoral epistles, was done by grubby scholars, who were and are hostile to the revelation given to Paul, as it undermines their conception of Christianity as an attack on Judaism.
The internal Evidence
A careful and impartial reading of of the epistles to Timothy and Titus will show that they could not have been written by any other person but Paul. In the opening salutation to first Timothy, the writer addressed him as, "my own son in the faith." This is because Timothy was taught and ordained by Paul. And just before Paul's death, Timothy was appointed as Paul's successor(11 Tim. 4:1-3).
Paul first met Timothy at Lystra, during his second missionary journey. He choose Timothy to travel with him in preaching the gospel(Acts16:1-3).
to be continued...
Well, AW's leading scoffer will be surprised to learn that all the epistles in the NT are pastoral epistles, as they were all written and sent to ministers of the various church congregations, then extant in Greece and Asia. And that the singling out of Timothy and Titus as pastoral epistles, was done by grubby scholars, who were and are hostile to the revelation given to Paul, as it undermines their conception of Christianity as an attack on Judaism.
The internal Evidence
A careful and impartial reading of of the epistles to Timothy and Titus will show that they could not have been written by any other person but Paul. In the opening salutation to first Timothy, the writer addressed him as, "my own son in the faith." This is because Timothy was taught and ordained by Paul. And just before Paul's death, Timothy was appointed as Paul's successor(11 Tim. 4:1-3).
Paul first met Timothy at Lystra, during his second missionary journey. He choose Timothy to travel with him in preaching the gospel(Acts16:1-3).
to be continued...
9 comments:
Tom - You need to proofread your welcome statement.
Charlie
Thanks Charlie.
BTW, I only activated moderation enable to prevent people who can't use polite language from posting here. But anyone is welcome to post here if s/he is prepared to address to the issues. They are free to attack my ideas, provided that they don't use vulgar language.
Unlike Gavin, you don't have to agree with me or flatter me to be welcome here.
However, as you know, when reason uproots some people's idiotic opinions, they often resort to abuse or imposed censorship. Well, I believe in freedom of speech within the bounds of decency.
Does foul water come from a sweet spring?
You need to reconsider the source of ministerial aberrations. Who educated the hirelings?
Tom: Just to keep things interesting I want to comment on something...
You said in your welcome statement:
"These insane people exited WCG screaming, [sic] that they were duped and mugged every Sabbath by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong, [sic]even though they were never coerced to attend services. These miserable scoffers were commanded "to prove all thing [sic]," but because they were either unwilling or incapable of proving anything, they have taken the easy option of blaming Mr. Armstrong for their delusions! What folly!"
Tom, Many many people were either born into armstrong's cult or were brought into it as minor children of adults. We had NO choice in the matter. That qualifies as something even more sinister than coercion. We were forcefed a load of bovine excrement and 'duped' into believing it because we looked to our parents for direction and truth. You may not yet be willing to admit it but armstrong, meredith, and all the rest were, are, and will remain wrong. No big deal? What they taught did to the minds of the young...Very big deal. Quite frankly I pity you and your family Tom. You hold fast to a fantasy. I truly hope you can wake up and face reality...maybe even enjoy or (gasp) bring joy to someone.
C'mon Tom...Life is too short and there are no guarantees.
Charlie said...
>>Tom, Many many people were either born into armstrong's cult or were brought into it as minor children of adults. We had NO choice in the matter.<<
This situation is not unusual, as all children are brought up to embrace the customs and beliefs of their parents. For example, you recently had an addition to your family, and since you have reverted to celebrating Xmas, and perhaps other pagan holidays, your children will naturally do the same. But when they get older, they will, no doubt, decide for themselves whether what you taught them is true or not.
Similarly, many children who were brought up in WCG have decided that its teachings were false, and they have moved on to other churches or no church at all. On the other hand, many have stayed with WCG, and the reasons may be varied. Those that left believe that they are right, and those that stayed believe that they are right. But they can't be both right!
However, everyone, whether brought up in WCG or not, had a God given responsibility to prove the doctrines of the church. Most failed to fulfil this responsibility. So if they were deceived, it was their fault.
So to blame Mr Armstrong for their deception, is to take the easy option! The more difficult option would be to ask themselves, how did I allow myself to be deceived? They might learn something!
Tom said: "This situation is not unusual, as all children are brought up to embrace the customs and beliefs of their parents. For example, you recently had an addition to your family, and since you have reverted to celebrating Xmas, and perhaps other pagan holidays, your children will naturally do the same. But when they get older, they will, no doubt, decide for themselves whether what you taught them is true or not."
Tom, you cannot equate a child's belief in Santa Claus with a child's armstrong induced nightmare of believing that worst events to ever happen on earth will happen in their lifetime before reaching adulthood.
Plain and simple.
Charlie said...
>>>Tom, you cannot equate a child's belief in Santa Claus with a child's armstrong induced nightmare of believing that worst events to ever happen on earth will happen in their lifetime before reaching adulthood.<<<
The issue here is not whether Santa Claus can be painted in as dark a colour as you have painted your childhood experience in WCG, it is about deception. Celebrating Xmas and teaching your children that Santa brought their presents while they were asleep is as equally as disturbing as any false doctrine WCG ever taught.
There is a basic difference between teaching a child about Santa Claus, and teaching a child religious beliefs, whether WCG or something else.
Teaching a child about Santa Claus you are teaching a child a deliberate lie. The parent knows the whole concept is a fabrication, and it’s a plot which other adults back-up, to substantiate the fantasy. They are knowingly lying to the child.
Teaching a child the religious beliefs of the parent, hopefully the parent is passing on the truth as they understand – in other words, they are not deliberately lying to their child, but passing on what they believe to be true. If it actually is true or not is a different question.
The two things are fundamentally different.
Questeruk said...
>>Teaching a child about Santa Claus you are teaching a child a deliberate lie.<<
A point well made. I hope Charlie will note what you say, and stop lying to his children.
>>>Teaching a child the religious beliefs of the parent, hopefully the parent is passing on the truth as they understand – in other words, they are not deliberately lying to their child, but passing on what they believe to be true.<<<
Another well made point! I whole heartedly agree with you. Charlie, please note the difference?
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